"Jonathon Klein" (jonathon-klein)
09/22/2014 at 10:28 • Filed to: Local Motors, 3D Printed Car
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"Jonathon Klein" (jonathon-klein)
09/22/2014 at 10:28 • Filed to: Local Motors, 3D Printed Car | 15
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The current state of automotive manufacturing has been at a standstill for pretty much since the time of Henry Ford and not much in the ways of progress has occurred in terms of methods. We of course have new materials and ways of building those materials, such as carbon fiber, titanium, and structural aluminum, but other than that the process of putting a car together hasn't changed much at all. Until now.
Last week, Local Motors set out to display a proof of concept that could possibly revolutionize the way automotive manufacturers build car components, or even the cars themselves. Using advanced, and much larger, 3D printing, Local Motors built a fully functional car within 44hrs from absolutely nothing at a manufacturing and trade expo in downtown Chicago. I got invited down to check out the car by Local Motors, and honestly, it is pretty damn cool.
The car uses a Renault Twizy electric motor that gives the car a top speed of around 50mph, something though that it didn't get up to for its first test run. What it did do was start, run, and function just like any other normal car.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuzLRc…
The only difference was that just a few short days ago, this car was still a massive block of plastic.
Speaking while in the car about the use of this technology, Local Motors CEO Jay Roger's said that he hopes that one day Local Motors would be able to provide a 1 day turn around service from the intial design, to manufacturing, to driving so that a customer can walk into Local Motors, pick a design, wait a bit, and drive off with their car later that day.
I was able to get up close and personal with the Strati and every single piece on this car, and there aren't that many with only a total of 57 parts, was captivating and fascinating to see the blend of technologies.
Will this be how all of our cars are made in a few years? Probably not, but it does showcase the power of a technology to rapidly build many of the parts on our cars. Manufacturers are already investing heavily into 3D printing technologies to stay relevant. 3D printed parts are coming, with some already on the road, but that will only increase as more and more manufacturers develop their own 3D printing infrastructures.
While the car was designed and built to showcase a new way of using existing technology, the car definitely had the Local Motors vibe to it. The wheels for instance, for safety's sake, were normal wheels, but also a set of one off Fifteen52's. You may know these from the same company that makes all of Ken Block's Rally and Gymkhanna wheels giving a bit of lineage from the Rally Fighter, Local Motors fist production car.
It was fascinating to check out the car and talk with all the folks from Local Motors. They are truly a passionate bunch, and it shows in all the vehicles they build. They even gave me a ride in the Rally Fighter, the article which will be coming soon to The Smoking Tire so stay tuned. I also got a scoop while I was there concerning the company's next project, the !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! .
!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!
Right now the company is between two engines, a GM sourced Ecotec motor, or a twin turbo 1.5L EcoBoost motor, with them leaning towards the Ford unit. I threw in the Toyota FA20 motor, but the network for crate engines just isn't there to make a business case as I was told, and they are all very excited to begin working on it, and so am I! The next project is also in good hands, the Local Motors CFO used to work on the !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! project.
Follow me here on !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! for more shenanigans
Basement Cat
> Jonathon Klein
09/22/2014 at 10:56 |
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I like how they didn't bother to file down the rough "printed" parts of the body. Ballsy
Iheartmy365kHonda - Car enthusiasts do like FWD
> Jonathon Klein
09/22/2014 at 10:56 |
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I love those wheels!
abgwin
> Jonathon Klein
09/22/2014 at 10:56 |
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3D printed car? No, but thanks.
3D printed parts for my Lancia? Now there's something I need!
Seriously, when will a vintage parts house get their hands on a 3D printer and start cranking out parts made from Unobtainium in Elbonia 30 years ago and never reproduced? I'll start with the self destructing "rubber" intake boot that must be air tight for medieval fuel injection to work yet self generates cracks and pinholes when breathed on.
biffo
> Jonathon Klein
09/22/2014 at 10:56 |
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This is really cool stuff! I could see weekend track cars being 3D printed for ease of fixing and being cheap! Thanks for a great story
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melikecars
> Jonathon Klein
09/22/2014 at 10:57 |
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A plastic car doesn't sound all that safe.
Wheelerguy
> Jonathon Klein
09/22/2014 at 10:58 |
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Color me impressed.
Whatever color it is.
But wait, just how strong is this car? I mean, can it take scratches and dents and be repaired easily? Or if this car gets some considerable damage, can LM fix it with just 3D-patch-ups?
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Jonathon Klein
> melikecars
09/22/2014 at 10:58 |
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The CFO said it was actually pretty stiff and they were eager to see what it could handle.
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twotimeuse
> abgwin
09/22/2014 at 10:58 |
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There are plenty of engineers out there (myself included) who would love to take on that kind of project!
IDer2
> Jonathon Klein
09/22/2014 at 11:03 |
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I honestly don't see how this is impressive. It's already proven in a smaller scale, and a car isn't even THAT much bigger. I am no engineer, but rolling the car gently around the block is hardly "prove of concept".
wætherman
> Jonathon Klein
09/22/2014 at 11:04 |
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I think this is a (yet another) bit of genius from LM. While manufacturing using mass-production techniques will always be cheaper, I can see there being a market for smaller factories meeting more specific needs locally and tailoring to a particular customer's style using 3D printing. And using electric motors just makes everything simpler and cheaper - less need for fluids makes for a very straightforward build.
SGTalon
> Jonathon Klein
09/22/2014 at 11:04 |
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The potential for this is HUGE! Imagine going down to Local Motors with your own design for a body that you did on your computer at home, give them the files and they print it and attach it to their chassis.
They could give a 3d model of the chassis that includes the attach points and you are free to go nuts with it. I think this might just be the Tuner Craze for the next generation.
Almost like the Kit Car craze that happened in the 70's using the VW Bug chassis.
I am very excited to see where this can go.
Redbulldidlo
> Wheelerguy
09/22/2014 at 11:05 |
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It's 57 plastic parts, it wouldn't be hard to simply replace whatever was damaged.
Vin
> Jonathon Klein
09/22/2014 at 11:07 |
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This looks delightful. Like "KTM X-Bow-meets-Mario Kart-meets Speed Buggy"
I DEMAND MOAR, LOCAL MOTORS!
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Jonathon Klein
> SGTalon
09/22/2014 at 11:08 |
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I am just as excited for this too. I talked to the CFO for a long time and we talked carbon fiber 3d printing, koenigsegg, what we felt about Tesla, and a whole host of other stuff. These people love cars so much, and that shows in their products. I can't wait to see what they do next, or even with this technology.
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MN2098
> melikecars
09/22/2014 at 11:08 |
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Yes, also 3d printed plastic has been known to have failure issues due to the fact that it's layered, it fractures along grains similar to wood, unless they have the design to take the grain into consideration.
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melikecars
> Jonathon Klein
09/22/2014 at 11:09 |
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It would be interesting to see what the IIHS crash sled would do to the side of this thing.
JGrabowMSt
> Jonathon Klein
09/22/2014 at 11:10 |
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Dat face! It's adorable! I want one. Can it have more ground clearance though? That could totally be a new Manx.
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Jonathon Klein
> IDer2
09/22/2014 at 11:10 |
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When it takes factories, forges, stamping machines, and a whole host of other things before you can even put a car together, and this took one machine just 44hrs and then it all actually worked? I'd say that's pretty impressive.
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Jonathon Klein
> Wheelerguy
09/22/2014 at 11:11 |
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Like Redbulldidlo said, because it's so few parts, it wouldn't be that hard to replace. But the guys there are eager to actually test its strength. They think it's going to be pretty impressive.
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Jonathon Klein
> JGrabowMSt
09/22/2014 at 11:12 |
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I'm sure with a different set of shocks you could get a bit more height. And I know, its cute.
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JordanPBurleigh
> Jonathon Klein
09/22/2014 at 11:12 |
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<<< Start working at home with Google! It's by-far the best job I've had. Last Wednesday I got a brand new BMW since getting a check for $6474 this - 4 weeks past. I began this 8-months ago and immediately was bringing home at least $77 per hour. I work through this link, go to tech tab for work detail
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Jonathon Klein
> melikecars
09/22/2014 at 11:12 |
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I'd love to see that too.
Bryce Womeldurf
> Jonathon Klein
09/22/2014 at 11:15 |
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Kind of neat. Something about it reminds me of the old Tommy Kaira ZZ, but even more compact and strange.
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Kesava Anderson
> Jonathon Klein
09/22/2014 at 11:19 |
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Since it's one unit. Probably very durable, but irreplaceable when broken.
monovich
> Jonathon Klein
09/22/2014 at 11:20 |
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Future Classic: This car. Is this THE first 3d printed car? If so, I hope it's preserved because it's rad AND it's historically significant.
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Kesava Anderson
> melikecars
09/22/2014 at 11:20 |
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neither does a carbon fiber one lol.
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Jonathon Klein
> monovich
09/22/2014 at 11:26 |
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I believe it is.
JohnnyWasASchoolBoy
> Jonathon Klein
09/22/2014 at 11:29 |
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Love the concept. Love the shape. From 10 feet and 10 mph it's really cool. However, I'm not a big fan of the Lego-look finishing. It really needs to be sanded, clear coated (even as a matte finish) and polished.
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AndreaPBaker
> Jonathon Klein
09/22/2014 at 11:32 |
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Start working at home with Google! It's by-far the best job I've had. Last Wednesday I got a brand new BMW since getting a check for $6474 this - 4 weeks past. I began this 8-months ago and immediately was bringing home at least $77 per hour. I work through this link, go to tech tab for work detail
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JordanPBurleigh
> Jonathon Klein
09/22/2014 at 11:33 |
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<<< Start working at home with Google! It's by-far the best job I've had. Last Wednesday I got a brand new BMW since getting a check for $6474 this - 4 weeks past. I began this 8-months ago and immediately was bringing home at least $77 per hour. I work through this link, go to tech tab for work detail
Bob ahwf
> Jonathon Klein
09/22/2014 at 11:41 |
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Did you look at the car? It is actually only a 3d printed shell over a regular car frame. All of the hard parts of the car (frame, steering, suspension, wheels, brakes, motor, etc) are not 3d printed. So, this only lets you 3d print the body. Maybe you might want to revise the article. They started with a fully functioning chassis, that you could drive. Then added a heavy, 3d printed shell.
DamienSandmanOvertime
> Redbulldidlo
09/22/2014 at 11:42 |
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The big question in my head is if/when a 3D printed car with an electric motor is able to have a real good time in sub-zero temperatures, snow, and wind chill.
uofime
> Jonathon Klein
09/22/2014 at 11:42 |
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Those parts look terrible! Some of the layers do not line up well at all. Rp always has a stepped appearance because of the process but it looks really bad on that body work. I'm guessing they increased the step size and width to save time.
They should be embarrassed
Pete S
> abgwin
09/22/2014 at 11:43 |
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If it can use a urethane piece, this one is easy: model the old one, make a male 3d printed piece, silicone mold, as many urethane pieces as you need.
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Pete S
> abgwin
09/22/2014 at 11:43 |
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If it can use a urethane piece, this one is easy: model the old one, make a male 3d printed piece, silicone mold, as many urethane pieces as you need.
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Pete S
> abgwin
09/22/2014 at 11:43 |
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If it can use a urethane piece, this one is easy: model the old one, make a male 3d printed piece, silicone mold, as many urethane pieces as you need.
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damnthisnoise
> Jonathon Klein
09/22/2014 at 11:46 |
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It's a neat design exercise, and shows the scale at which 3d printing can reach. I think there are better ways to utilize the technology, and produce a scale-able production vehicle. 44 hours to build a unit is too long.
Using 3d printing / rapid prototyping to build the molds for vacuforming or injection molding is a more efficient use. Printing a desolve-able form on which a carbon layup is done can cut time and reduce costs. Printing/cutting a honeycomb and a mold onto which a composite layup is done yields a very fast, very strong form, quicker than current methods.
I love seeing new technology get used, and seeing companies push that tech farther. There is a lot farther this could go though.
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Redbulldidlo
> DamienSandmanOvertime
09/22/2014 at 11:49 |
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Electric coils like a stove has, and fans. I'm pretty sure there are rubbers that can be printed for sealing purposes.
Autojunkie
> Jonathon Klein
09/22/2014 at 11:58 |
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I'm bothered by the term "3D Printed Car", because it's grossly misleading.
My question is how much of the car is actually 3D printed versus supplied components. Obviously they did not "print" the wheel bearings, electric motor, tires, windshield, steering and most suspension components. This basically really leaves us with a 3D printed body structure/monocoque.
Kudos for trying something different, but I'm not very impressed. I'm even less impressed with the misleading details about how this car was actually made.
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DamienSandmanOvertime
> Redbulldidlo
09/22/2014 at 12:06 |
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Fair enough. As someone who's totally ignorant on this, are the reasons a car battery can die in the dead of winter equally applicable concerns for the batteries that run electric cars?
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Redbulldidlo
> DamienSandmanOvertime
09/22/2014 at 12:09 |
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That I don't know, I don't even actually understand why batteries seem to die in the winter, as heat makes a battery discharge faster.
1BADSTI
> Jonathon Klein
09/22/2014 at 12:18 |
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Lets be honest, the FA20 is a subaru engine, not a toyota engine.
MannyBones
> Jonathon Klein
09/22/2014 at 12:30 |
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Speed Buggy?
GrauGeist
> Jonathon Klein
09/22/2014 at 12:38 |
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This little thing is arguably cooler than the Seven-esque thing they're crowd-sourcing.
Mr. Ontop, No Strokes, No Smokes...Goes Fast.
> Jonathon Klein
09/22/2014 at 12:51 |
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Reminds me of the "You wouldn't download a car if you could would you?" thing....
Damn straight I would!
David Harmon
> Jonathon Klein
09/22/2014 at 12:54 |
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More like print a toy.
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PopTop
> Jonathon Klein
09/22/2014 at 13:11 |
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This is super cool, and I love the idea of 3D printing custom or modular vehicle designs to fit on a common chassis. Especially if I could design my own! On the other hand, if I were to spend many many thousands of dollars on a clearly unsafe car, it would probably be in the form of a classic, early hot rod, or vintage kit car....rather than a Rubbermaid tote on wheels.
exquisite
> uofime
09/22/2014 at 13:31 |
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For printing a full running car in hours like this? Tell me what amazing feats you have accomplished to be so snide.
crazycar
> Jonathon Klein
09/22/2014 at 13:43 |
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The machine that made it.
The floor pan.
Tani Vickson
> abgwin
09/22/2014 at 13:46 |
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Slow down there, Dilbert.
SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie
> Jonathon Klein
09/22/2014 at 13:48 |
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I can't wait until 3D printing becomes more viable. There's a carbon fiber printer coming out soon, but it's limited to 6"x6"x12", so not capable of printing a chassis yet.
porschephile463
> Wheelerguy
09/22/2014 at 13:52 |
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my guess is it will badly fail crash tests, but that isn't the point. The point is what if you had an old Panther chassis laying around and a giant 3D printer? You could rule the world! #forgettheMiata
Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment
> Jonathon Klein
09/22/2014 at 14:02 |
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I mean it's cool...but look at it. I don't want to drive that.
Orange_Crusader
> Basement Cat
09/22/2014 at 14:11 |
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They did, it took them effectively 2 days to print it, followed by a full day of machining to get it to the finish you see here.
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Orange_Crusader
> Jonathon Klein
09/22/2014 at 14:17 |
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As much as I love seeing new tech being applied at a larger scale and in interesting ways, this is... stupid. It's cool at face value, but as soon as you do a side-by-side, it falls apart.
It's much heavier than a traditional composite, takes a VERY long time to make a single part (plus extensive finishing) compared to composites, is weaker than composites, and due to all of this, more expensive, and unless 3d printing speeds up by an order of magnitude while decreasing costs, will remain so. Sure, making molds has higher up front costs, but the countless hours it takes to pump out a single piece of RP'd plastic, followed by countless hours of finishing just cannot compare to the minutes it takes to lay up, cure and pop out a composite part that is superior in every single metric. Great for one-offs, terrible IMO for anything vaguely resembling mass production (upwards of say, 10 units a year).
Somebody remind me again what the benefits here are. They SHOULD be making molds using 3d printing, perhaps, but using it on large items that require a fine finish and thus many, many, many hours of labor to achieve said finish, while compromising everything about the end product compared to existing manufacturing methods... meh. Want a unique body? Make modular panels and have a few designs for each, I guarantee the very high majority of their customers would desire very little, if any customization requiring the flexibility of 3D printing, and having a different bumper/fenders would satisfy 98% of them. I don't see the advantage here, plain and simple, sorry to wet blanket, but it is what it is. A nice technological showcase, but far from the future of car manufacturing, IMO. I'd be happy to eat my words, but as it stands I'd MUCH rather see cars made from traditional composites and CFRP's and such instead of this clunky crap.
Source: I'm an automotive part design student, with about 7 years of amateur experience in traditional manufacturing methods (stamping, fibreglass, CF, etc.).
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uofime
> exquisite
09/22/2014 at 14:28 |
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They printed a body to put on an existing chassis and drivetrain. I'm not positive but I'd guess that the golfcart ran and drove without this crappy looking rapid prototyped body.
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blahrgen
> Jonathon Klein
09/22/2014 at 14:29 |
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i think this is interesting but it won't be the future of purchasing. This car was made to prove a point, which is neat but not easy to market.
3D printing is not cheap - not now, not ever. for the same reason that die-cast/stamped pieces are cheaper than milled pieces, custom 3D printing will be more expensive than pre-made bodies. It's the reason hyundai cars are cheap, they offer FEWER options.
At most, 3D printing will allow custom body panels. Making the chassis and major attachment points standardized on an assembly line will still be far cheaper. Then slap on a few 3D printed body panels to fit the customer's desires.
interceptor
> abgwin
09/22/2014 at 14:40 |
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Teach yourself some 3D design with the free software of Sketchup, Openscad, etc.. there are even handheld 3D scanners these days if you don't like measuring manually. And send your design of to a shop like Shapeways.
It's 2014 and you can even print those nifty chrome details of your classic :)
http://www.sketchup.com/download/all
http://www.shapeways.com/materials
http://www.openscad.org/downloads.html
tehkav
> blahrgen
09/22/2014 at 14:47 |
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You realize that milling (stock reduction) is the literal opposite of 3D printing?
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exquisite
> uofime
09/22/2014 at 14:48 |
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So you have done nothing of merit then to be this critical of this. OK, gotcha! You know if it is so easy, you should just print a bitchin' body and put it on a car. I am sure you could crowdsource it.
This body still needed to be designed in a special way that it had structural integrity, while being light and something feasibly printable. All of this takes knowhow and engineering. Regardless of how unimpressive this is to you. If it was easy other people would have done this by now but they have not.
BaconSandwich is tasty.
> DamienSandmanOvertime
09/22/2014 at 15:01 |
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A lot of it comes down to warming/cooling the battery. Batteries are generally happy in a certain temperature range - anything too cold and they start losing power, anything too hot and they can potentially be damaged (i.e.: not hold as much of a charge). Vehicles like the Chevy Volt actually have a pretty decently sized chunk of the battery dedicated to just that - managing temperature for the rest of the battery. In winter, when you plug it in, the batteries are kept warm.
I'm not chemist, but I think a lot of it comes down to basic chemistry. Reactions happen more slowly in cold conditions. Other than climate controlled batteries, there might currently not be a good answer for that. Of course we've had to overcome similar problems with internal combustion engines - things like block heaters, oil pan warmers, and battery blankets.
punkgoose17
> Jonathon Klein
09/22/2014 at 15:02 |
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Good article, and thanks for the update on the Track Car motor. I have not seen that they were down to 2 motors posted on their site yet.
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Jonathon Klein
> punkgoose17
09/22/2014 at 15:06 |
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SSSHHH, its a scooop!!!
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blahrgen
> tehkav
09/22/2014 at 15:06 |
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philisophically yes. in labour, time, and machinery required, no.
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abgwin
> Pete S
09/22/2014 at 15:53 |
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There ya go, "it's easy" - so why isn't it being done? Seriously, there should be ads on this very site for this service.
Texican
> blahrgen
09/22/2014 at 15:54 |
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The cost efficiency is improving year by year. Printing something so large, so fast would have been impossible a relatively short time ago. There is no fundamental reason to believe that the technology won't continue to mature until it begins to displace other methods of manufacture to some degree.
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blahrgen
> Texican
09/22/2014 at 16:02 |
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again, no matter how mature, custom fabrication is always going to be slower and more expensive than using exactly the same materials, pouring them into a pre-made mold, and stamping it out.
3d printing is good for highly variable things that MUST be custom-made for each individual person - for example, perfect-fit prosthetics. maybe even glasses/helmets/goggles. medical implants. pistol grips. chairs perfectly molded to my ass. Things that every single customer WILL want differently, a few millimeters difference every single time.
It's also good for rapid prototyping because every single prototype will have small changes compared to the previous one.
But if you're going to make more than 20 of something identically, 3D printing is not the way to go. Too slow, too expensive. material science to advance 3D printing will still be used to advance regular manufacturing as well.
AndresMN
> Wheelerguy
09/22/2014 at 16:13 |
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It must be very strong, I guess having a 3D printed chassis you could engineer crumple structures.... just make sure not to park it under intense sun
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Texican
> blahrgen
09/22/2014 at 16:27 |
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20 is a very low number for a batch size. Making the tooling to injection mold such a small number of units is going to leave a significant cost penalty. "Regular" manufacturing with plastics (non-metals in general) is geared towards production in the hundreds, or thousands of units. Dozens is much more difficult to do in a cost effective way.
Your second paragraph kind of makes the argument for me. Things that benefit from slight variation are naturals for printing. Just the fields you named are worth billions of dollars a year. That is incentive enough alone for the tech to get better and better, becoming increasingly competitive. Consider that your printed product has zero transportation costs, and the ability to be instantly updated with design revisions. That's a powerful market advantage.
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blahrgen
> Texican
09/22/2014 at 16:58 |
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i picked 20 because from what i've seen, that's the bare minimum break-even point. for, say, custom carbon fibre car parts, i've seen them only need about 20 people to sign on and pre-purchase to get the tooling done and actually make the product.
car chassis are definitely not one of those fields. i never said 3d printing was completely useless, i'm saying it's limited in scope and for the majority of products in existence, stamping/injection molding is faster, cheaper, and probably of higher quality. we do not need custom-printed TVs. they sit on a wall. nor custom printed doors. they're rectangles, not form-fitting. or cabinets, or tables, or doorknobs, or routers, speakers, pots and pans, etc. And certainly not car chassis. at most, 3d printing could be used for body panels because ricers really want a unique fin/vent sticking out of nowhere.
Dirka
> Jonathon Klein
09/22/2014 at 17:40 |
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Now print me an 037
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Jonathon Klein
> Dirka
09/22/2014 at 19:10 |
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Comment of the Day right here!
DarthDuster
> SGTalon
09/22/2014 at 20:33 |
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It's unlikely that will the technology will take off in quite that way. 3D modelling to the required tolerances for this is incredibly time consuming, requires specialist software and is not something that the layman (or even the enthusiastic amateur) would currently be able to achieve.
Don't let desktop printers and open source 3D modelling software fool you. They are fine for trinkets and messing about with, but this sort of thing is a whole different ball game.
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SGTalon
> DarthDuster
09/22/2014 at 20:45 |
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Actually that is not true at all. I work with 3d Modelling all the time. If you have a starting point it is actually really easy to make something bolt on. I am given location points for equipment then I have to put a machine on top of it that interacts with the work area.
Something like a car body would be really easy to do. I can think of so many cool things I would do with it.
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AussieNinja650r
> blahrgen
09/22/2014 at 21:22 |
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The one thing that 3d printed parts excel at, and probably will displace mass-produced stamped/molded parts, is strength vs weight.
This is the reason aircraft are starting to use 3d printed parts, because you can make stronger and lighter parts that are just physically impossible to make with existing methods.
Granted aircraft is not a huge volume production, however I can see 3d printed parts for chasis and structure becoming more popular as the processes become more efficient, cheaper and scalable.
SM Harrison
> Jonathon Klein
09/23/2014 at 02:33 |
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Interesting, not particularly pretty, and love the tail light, that's the kind of idea i'd come up with. Not real practical for large volume manufacturing, but i could definitely see this making low volume cars easier and cheaper to build.
Lets see if it takes off any better than GM's (? i think it was them) skateboard. Anyone remember that? A thin chassis with electric motors, batteries and electronics that could be easily fitted with whatever body you needed.
EvilSuperMonkey
> Jonathon Klein
09/23/2014 at 12:15 |
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That's really cool. I imagine the safety side of getting "custom" printed cars on the streets is going to be a nightmare.
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duuude
> Jonathon Klein
09/23/2014 at 12:44 |
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One day, we can buy a large 3d printer as a garage and print our own cars. Imagine instead of buying a car, we just buy the design and print it in our garages. Even if it's just the body panels and interior, that would mean cheap body repairs and easy personalization.
Back in the day, somebody dented your bumper you could tell them don't worry about it and go your way. Now these crap plastic bumpers just break, or the clips break, or some crap. Really if it were cheap, driving would be so much more relaxing.
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DarthDuster
> SGTalon
09/23/2014 at 13:00 |
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Which software do you use, and for what purpose? - 3D modelling is not a 'one size fits all' process, different software works in different ways depending on what output is required.
If it's what you do for a living then you have an advantage. Believe me, constructing complex curved forms like car body panels in a patch layout to G3 tolerances in Alias (which is what is required for manufacture) is not a straightforward process.
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SGTalon
> DarthDuster
09/23/2014 at 13:09 |
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All of the 3D Engineering design programs that are used for manufacturing are up to the task. I personally use Autodesk Inventor, but Solidworks, Catia, Nx, name the program that works with solids and it is able to do it.
You aren't going to do it in 3DS Max or Alias (whatever that is)... or maybe you can, I am not sure, I have never used the graphics based design programs. When it comes to designing something that is going to be real, you have to use the right tool.
Frosted
> Jonathon Klein
09/23/2014 at 14:36 |
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Could any person hypothetically just buy a big 3D printer and a big block of plastic and just print their own cars in the future/if this sort of manufacturing process catches on?
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DarthDuster
> SGTalon
09/23/2014 at 14:48 |
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That's my whole point - You're not going to do it in a polygon based modeller (Max, Maya, C4D, Blender etc). Autodesk Alias (or sometimes Rhino) is what the industry uses for body design because it's a NURBS modeller that can create organic sculpted shapes (it's not for mechanical components and complex mechanisms - you would use the programs you mentioned for that). It can take weeks even for one experienced modeller to create a rough concept model because although 'getting the holes in the right place' is relatively straightforwards, building surfaces out of a number of patches and ensuring those patches are dimensionally within tolerance (to within a thousandth of a millimetre) requires a great deal of skill and experience.
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Jonathon Klein
> Frosted
09/23/2014 at 14:49 |
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Potentially
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Frosted
> Jonathon Klein
09/23/2014 at 14:51 |
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Could be a neat way of doing things, let the consumer design their own car and just take it to a dealer/mechanic have an appropriate engine installed.
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SGTalon
> DarthDuster
09/23/2014 at 17:29 |
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Why would you need to have such high tolerances for anything but mounting locations? I can see if you were making sheet metal dies or fiberglass molds, but this will be a one off or possibly more design.
The kit cars of the 70's were done 100% by hand the tolerances of something like that is about 1/4". Chances of the left side matching the right side were maybe.
Designing in 3D is way more efficient and accurate than doing anything by hand.
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DarthDuster
> SGTalon
09/23/2014 at 21:43 |
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To create panels in a NURBS environment, depending on the complexity of the surface you would need to create it out of a number of patches (essentially the more complex the surfaces, the more patches are needed).
To ensure the surfaces are continuous across joins they need to be dimensionally accurate and with a constant curvature. Otherwise the surface is either broken (and can't be built because it has holes in) or you end up with poor quality surfaces that have irregularities (imagine ripples or peaks and troughs).
It's called Class A surfacing (i.e. production standard) which this model (not one of mine!) is built to to give you some idea:
https://grabcad.com/questions/what…
John The Race Fan
> Frosted
09/24/2014 at 08:18 |
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That's exactly the idea.
There are two issues with 3D printing of a car that makes it just out of reach from the home-based "hobby manufacturer".
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While you can assemble your own tabletop-sized 3D printer, the equipment needed to print something the size of a car body would take up most of a two-car garage. Single Jalops will jump at it, but those of us with wives face a substantial battle for the 3D printer, most likely. I know I would, even if I acquiesce to use the 3D printer for making jewelry castings or replacement heels for her shoes.
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Resins for 3D printers aren't cheap.
Here's a suitable material
for printing a car body or body parts that runs $100/liter. I'm willing to bet that LM could negotiate a bulk rate or wholesale purchase at much less, but still...
You're looking at a
very
expensive car body.
As someone else pointed out, the home manufacturing hobbyist will likely print smaller parts at home, especially things like brackets and clips pieces that don't carry much load and aren't visible. As this car body shows, 3D printed parts aren't the prettiest in the world. I wouldn't care about a bracket for something to look this way, but a car body?
I'll pass.
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John The Race Fan
> Frosted
09/24/2014 at 08:22 |
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There's a bit more to it than that.
You need to fit safety equipment, lighting, seats, electricals, suspension, etc.
I liken this to a tub that's used as the foundation of an IndyCar of F1 car. You print the tub, then fill in the rest of the car.
Kaufmania: Mark Webber's Stunt Double
> abgwin
09/25/2014 at 12:52 |
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you own a plan lancia? I trust its an old lancia. If so, so jealous.
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ILovePickeldEggs
> Kesava Anderson
09/25/2014 at 13:09 |
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terrible analogy.
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ILovePickeldEggs
> Jonathon Klein
09/25/2014 at 13:10 |
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I can make a shit go kart in a weekend also. Not impressive.
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ILovePickeldEggs
> Jonathon Klein
09/25/2014 at 13:15 |
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That's good. I mean its not as good as "very stiff" but better than "so-so stiff".
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ILovePickeldEggs
> Jonathon Klein
09/25/2014 at 13:18 |
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But it wasn't built with one machine. You can clearly see metal structures that the suspension terminates to. Yeah, if it one one machine that made the motors, tires and everything I'd be the greatest damn thing in centuries, but its not. Its a big ass robotic hot glue gun the spits out shit plastic to make non structural components. Think about it.
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ILovePickeldEggs
> tehkav
09/25/2014 at 13:23 |
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No shit Sherlock. It's still extremely time and material intensive which is the point he making.
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ILovePickeldEggs
> Texican
09/25/2014 at 13:24 |
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Just like how milling has improved so much that we're milling whole cars out of chunks of aluminum.
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ILovePickeldEggs
> exquisite
09/25/2014 at 13:28 |
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Why would he do something that he said was stupid? No one's made a car out of feces either. Are you going to go make one to show how resourceful and thought provoking you are? Of course not, because its just gonna be shit.
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jorgedaman
> IDer2
09/25/2014 at 13:30 |
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"I'm no engineer"...well clearly because going from 3-d printing the little bits of the car to printing the whole thing is like going from cloning a fruit fly to cloning a sheep...still obviously not ready for prime time but impressive... much less wasteful to have a supply chain so in tune with demand.
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ILovePickeldEggs
> DarthDuster
09/25/2014 at 13:31 |
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Boulderdash. I'm pretty good at paint and took CAD courses in High School. What else do I need to design a car?
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ILovePickeldEggs
> JohnnyWasASchoolBoy
09/25/2014 at 13:33 |
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But then it wont take only 44 hours to make!
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ILovePickeldEggs
> SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie
09/25/2014 at 13:34 |
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How the hell is that supposed to work?